Mia Quade Kristensen, 46, and Jannie Jung Westermann, 45, are on the board of the 34-year old Danish Korean adoptee organization, Korea Klubben. They will share about their own search and reunion stories, including one of them being in reunion with her Korean family for more than two decades. The women will also share about their community in Denmark and what is needed for the future. Besides the US and Korea, Denmark is the third most-downloaded country for the podcast. 

Audio is available on Friday, March 15, 2024. 

(0:00:09) speaker_0: Welcome to Adopted Podcast, Season 7, Episode 14 starts now. This is a podcast that centers the voices of Korean inter-country adoptees.

(0:00:20) speaker_0: Adopted people are the true experts of the lived experience of adoption. My name is Kaomi Lee, and I was adopted from Korea.

(0:00:28) speaker_0: Our voices have often been silenced by adoption agencies, governments, even our own adoptive parents, and a society that wants only a feel-good story.

(0:00:40) speaker_0: Our lives are more complicated than that. This podcast is part of changing that narrative.

(0:00:46) speaker_1: Everything that my Korean family is giving me, and I think what I’m giving them as well, but it is not something that just comes because you’re related by blood.

(0:00:56) speaker_1:

(0:00:56) speaker_0: In this episode, I talk with two friends, Jannie Westermann and Mia Quade. They are also board members of the Danish Korean Adoptee Group, Koreaklubben.

(0:01:07) speaker_0: We’ll hear a bit about their own searches for Korean family, and about the current status of their community.

(0:01:14) speaker_0: But before we start, I want to say a little about becoming a Patreon supporter. I hope you will.

(0:01:20) speaker_0: Patreon supporters can join for as little as a few dollars a month, and are helping to sustain the work of this podcast.

(0:01:28) speaker_0: All funds go directly to costs such as production help, podcasting software, music licenses, Korean translations, and more.

(0:01:38) speaker_0: Dozens of folks just like you have felt part of a community larger than themselves through these stories. You’ve told me so.

(0:01:46) speaker_0: They’ve decided the podcast is worth their support, and I hope you’ll consider joining by going to patreon.com/adoptedpodcast. Thank you.

(0:01:56) speaker_0: Now, here’s the episode.

(0:02:08) speaker_2: Uh, my name is Mia, uh, Quayde Christensen. My Korean name is Kim Sam Ya. Um, I’m 46 years old. I was adopted to Denmark in 1980.

(0:02:21) speaker_2: And I live in a smaller city called Herning.

(0:02:26) speaker_1: Yeah. Uh, my name is, uh, Jannie. My Korean name is Song In Jung. And I were adopted to Denmark in ’79, and I live in Herstedbro, and I’m 45 years old.

(0:02:44) speaker_1:

(0:02:44) speaker_0: Can you guys, uh, both just kind of briefly describe your, you know, talk about your adoption story?

(0:02:51) speaker_2: Uh, yeah. Uh, shortly. Um, as you know, I was found in, in Samcheok, uh, a smaller city at the east coast in Korea, when I was two and a half years old.

(0:03:05) speaker_2: When I was found, I had injury on my right arm and right leg due to an accident. I don’t really know anything about it.

(0:03:16) speaker_2: Um, I went to the Gangneung Baby Home for half a year and was admitted into so- into hold, uh, children’s services.

(0:03:25) speaker_2: And then I was half a year also at foster care family. Um, I was three and a half years old when I came, came to Denmark. Um, yeah.

(0:03:37) speaker_2: That’s, I think that’s shortly.

(0:03:42) speaker_1: Um, uh, in my Danish adoption papers it says that I’m an orphaned, uh, child and, uh, and it says that I’m from Busan.

(0:03:53) speaker_1: Um, and that’s more or less all the information that I have been given, um, through the adoption agencies.

(0:04:05) speaker_1: Um, but in 2001, my parents and my younger sister, who is also adopted, went to Korea with this, um, group, uh, for other adoptees, uh, and with their, um, parents.

(0:04:21) speaker_1: At that time, we were able to go through and see our documents if we showed up in person at the agencies.

(0:04:30) speaker_1: And that’s, that’s what we did, and there were information, um, about my case and a very friendly, um, um, social worker at KSS, um, helped me in secret, uh, and kind of tracked down my Korean biological father.

(0:04:53) speaker_1: And I’ve been reunited with him since 2001. And in 2019, my Korean family helped me, um, to reunite with my Korean biological mother as well.

(0:05:10) speaker_0: Uh, I wanna talk about the y- um, Danish adoptee group that you both are leading, but before we get to that, k- Jenny, can you talk a little bit about, um, your reunion story with your family?

(0:05:28) speaker_0: I know you, you spoke with some of your f- with your brothers at, um, EICA this summer, and, uh, just wanted to, if you could say a little bit more about what that was like to reunite with them.

(0:05:41) speaker_0:

(0:05:41) speaker_1: Hmm. Yes. Uh, I think it was a little bit strange to reunite with biological family, with my father and my half-brothers, um, due to them being like strangers.

(0:05:57) speaker_1: I was just told that, “This is your biological father, and this is his family.” So-…

(0:06:04) speaker_1: me not being able to reconnect immediately because I did not think that we looked alike that much.

(0:06:12) speaker_1: Um, so it has been a journey for me, uh, and it was not something that came really easily.

(0:06:19) speaker_1: Um, I think our connection have been growing and we have been using a lot of effort and energy and also financials to be able to grow the relationship that we have today, which I mean, is a very strong one, but it has taken a lot of years and it has also been, like…

(0:06:38) speaker_1: because both parties have been making a- a lot of efforts.

(0:06:43) speaker_1: So, I can say that I really do love and I really do appreciate everything that my Korean family is giving me, and I think what I’m giving them as well, but it is not something that just comes because you’re, um, related by blood.

(0:07:02) speaker_1: That’s, I think (laughs) what I can s- what I can say about that.

(0:07:09) speaker_0: A lot of effort and- and money to, um, keep these relationships going, right? Or just to even grow them.

(0:07:18) speaker_1: You have to be able to use the time to travel and as you know, it’s quite expensive to, um, travel abroad.

(0:07:26) speaker_1: And also for them, because they have visit me in Denmark as well, so it’s not only me who have been taking time and money to, uh, go visit them.

(0:07:37) speaker_1: And I think because they have shown me the same, uh, will, um, and they have also, like, taken time out of their very busy schedule.

(0:07:47) speaker_1: And that means a lot to me in a way that I would not have asked them to do it, but because they have done it, I can feel that- that really do mean something, if that makes sense.

(0:07:59) speaker_1:

(0:07:59) speaker_0: So, these are your half brothers and your father who’s, uh, married another woman, not your mother?

(0:08:07) speaker_1: Exactly.

(0:08:08) speaker_0: What was it… What was their reaction to learn about you? Do you think they were hesitant or were they really enthusiastic to meet you right away?

(0:08:16) speaker_1: I think my brothers were surprised, but not really, really surprised.

(0:08:21) speaker_1: They’ve told me before that they have heard about me before, but they were not exactly aware of who I were.

(0:08:28) speaker_1: They’ve just heard my name being spoken, uh, spoken, uh, yeah, a few times.

(0:08:35) speaker_1: But as Korean children, they do not kind of ask questions to their parents, so they didn’t kind of ask my father who exactly, who I were.

(0:08:45) speaker_1: They just said that they had heard my name being mentioned before. And, um, my father’s wife was very, very friendly and very…

(0:08:56) speaker_1: has always been very caring and very, um…

(0:08:58) speaker_1: Yeah, she has been, like, actually, like a mother to me from the beginning and I think it’s because she had been told, uh, the truth about me from when they met, my father and her.

(0:09:11) speaker_1: So, I was not like a big secret. So in that way, it was really easy for me to meet the whole, uh, family on my father’s side at that time.

(0:09:21) speaker_1: And my father’s siblings all knew of me as well, so…

(0:09:24) speaker_0: And why did… Why… Were you ever told why you were given up?

(0:09:29) speaker_1: It was my grandmother, my father’s mother who gave me up for adoption without my mother and father’s consent and my mother and father split up because they were really poor and d- my father could not, uh…

(0:09:44) speaker_1: Um, yeah, he c- he didn’t earn any money, so they just had to, like, split up and my father asked m- my grandmother if she could take care of me and she said that would be okay, but my father had to go out and make…

(0:09:59) speaker_1: Uh, yeah, for his own living, so he was not able to be taken care of.

(0:10:04) speaker_0: I see. So, without your father or mother’s consent, your grandmother relinquished you and then your adoptive parents were told you were an orphan.

(0:10:15) speaker_1: Um, yes.

(0:10:16) speaker_1: My- my, uh, my mother actually tried to get a hold of me at my, uh, grandmother’s, uh, house, but she was told that I were, yeah, sent off for adoption and, um, my father also was really angry at that time when he came back and found out that my grandmother had, uh, sent me up for adoption as well.

(0:10:38) speaker_1: And in my papers it says, like you said, that I’m an orphan and I were being brought to Pusan and have been in Namkwon, uh, Children Home, but that’s not correct.

(0:10:50) speaker_1: I have been, uh, delivered in KSS in- in Seoul. So, all of my information regarding that is just, uh, like a story that is not true.

(0:11:00) speaker_0: How does it feel today to have learned that, you know, people were lied to or, you know, you were sent away without your parents’ consent?

(0:11:14) speaker_0: Um, there’s so much deception.

(0:11:17) speaker_1: Exactly, but I have known now for 24 years, so I think the anger and the, um, astonishment have been like…

(0:11:25) speaker_1: been laid to rest and now I’m just, like, trying to do my best to, uh, yeah, inform other people that if they have one of these very known stories, the one with the police station or the one with the nuns or the one about being, uh, abandoned on a staircase or something, then they, they should be aware that maybe their story is also one of these made up stories.

(0:11:51) speaker_1: Because like in Denmark we have, like… is it three or four stories, Mia, that has been, like, circling around? And, uh, most of us who was, like

(0:12:01) speaker_3: (laughs)

(0:12:01) speaker_1: … orphans are on- on paper, that’s just, like, a made-up story.

(0:12:07) speaker_0: Mia, Mia, have you wanted to search, or have you wanted to search, uh, for biological family?

(0:12:14) speaker_2: Yeah. Yeah. Um, actually I’ve been searching most of my adult life. I think I started in the beginning of the series, end ’90s…

(0:12:27) speaker_2: End ’90s, beginning z- series, to search for my family.

(0:12:32) speaker_2: I think it’s been a thing I wanted, uh, to do as long as I remember, and I tried many different ways.

(0:12:41) speaker_2: Um, I’ve been in K- in Korea four times now, and, uh, I’ve been in contact w- with medias, and I’ve been out giving out flyers, articles, newsletters, internet, uh, posts, uh, a lot of things.

(0:12:58) speaker_2: I’ve been also to television I think three times now, maybe. And, but still not anything, no clue yet to, to get closer to my biological family.

(0:13:12) speaker_0: What… Mia, what keeps you going to keep searching? It sounds like you have put a lot of effort into it, and always, uh, a lot of disappointment.

(0:13:24) speaker_2: Yeah. Um, I’ve been, um…

(0:13:28) speaker_2: I have this feeling that because I have these burn scars on the right side of my body, and, um, for many years I’ve been thinking that this could be my…

(0:13:45) speaker_2: How to say? It should be easier to recognize me.

(0:13:50) speaker_2: And as uh, as, uh, as is, is stated in my paper, I come from a smaller city, and I was thinking this is my kind of luck that it’s not a big city as Busan or Seoul.

(0:14:05) speaker_2: Um, so maybe there should be someone out there in Samcheok or Samcheok area that could recognize my baby pictures with the burn scars.

(0:14:16) speaker_2: Um, I also have this feeling that I have a sibling, very…

(0:14:21) speaker_2: Not s- so much younger or older than me, and I don’t know if, if that’s the reason actually why I still sta- still, uh, am using so much energy in trying to find my family.

(0:14:38) speaker_2: It means a lot to me.

(0:14:40) speaker_0: What… Sorry, I think there’s a delay, so, um, what do you think finding your family would… Do you think it would be some kind of, um…

(0:14:51) speaker_0: It would complete your life, or…?

(0:14:54) speaker_2: Yeah. Uh, in a way, I think it would.

(0:14:57) speaker_2: Uh, um, I stayed two and a half years with my biological family, and I have this feeling that, um, I need to know who gave birth to me, who, who were my parents, and, and I have so many questions, uh, I would like to get answered, and, um, what happened, wh- how…

(0:15:19) speaker_2: Why… How did the accident happen? Do I have sisters and brothers? And I have this, uh…

(0:15:25) speaker_2: And it’s very diffic- difficult to describe, but it’s just a feeling that I need to, to see my parents once more, and then, uh, also my Korean name actually means third daughter, so I’m sure I have ch- uh, sisters or brothers, uh, in Korea.

(0:15:46) speaker_2:

(0:15:48) speaker_0: What do you think your next step is?

(0:15:50) speaker_2: Um, I think still I need to go out in the local area around Samcheok and maybe also some of the neighbor cities, the smaller cities around Samcheok to hand out flyers, to talk to the local people, but I’m not sure because I really tried a lot.

(0:16:08) speaker_2: (instrumental music plays)

(0:16:31) speaker_0: And, uh, Janni, you said that you… W- with your brothers now you’ve forged a very close relationship with, with, um, at least one of them, right?

(0:16:42) speaker_1: I actually think both of them, but like, emotionally, but yes. But, but of course I have a stronger relationship with the one who’s…

(0:16:51) speaker_0: Oh, okay. So it, it dropped off again. So you have a stronger relationship with one of them, yeah.

(0:16:55) speaker_1: I’m not learning Korean.

(0:16:57) speaker_1: Um, I, I speak English with Hyunmoo and he’ll just kind of, uh, translate into Korean with the rest of the family, um, so he’s like the one who can connect me to the rest of the family.

(0:17:11) speaker_1:

(0:17:11) speaker_0: Now you… Your English is great, but I wonder, is it… Gosh, how difficult is it to actually… You’re seeking…

(0:17:18) speaker_0: You’re speaking a second language (laughs) to your family when you know you’re not actually speaking Danish. Like, how can you talk about complex feelings?

(0:17:28) speaker_0:

(0:17:28) speaker_1: We cannot speak re- really about the complex things. We can try to…

(0:17:34) speaker_1: Um, I think Mia can t- talk about this as well because we have been visiting, uh, my family a few times as well and Hyunmoo have been here visiting her as well.

(0:17:47) speaker_1: So Hyunmoo is actually quite open and he is very good of, um, yeah, connecting with us, but of course he’s sometimes missing words in English and I also kind of try to make my language more simple, so in that way we cannot get the com-…

(0:18:08) speaker_1: we cannot get all angles, uh, in every, um, conversation in, that’s, I think I’ll, yeah, that’s the way I’ll put it.

(0:18:17) speaker_1: I’m not able to tell him everything that I feel, and, uh, he’s not, definitely not able to tell me everything that he feel.

(0:18:25) speaker_1: But we do speak about quite, uh, sensitive stuff, (laughs) and private, um, things as well, but yeah. What, what would you say, Mia?

(0:18:36) speaker_0: So Mia, you have met Janni’s family?

(0:18:38) speaker_2: Yeah, more, several times now actually.

(0:18:42) speaker_0: Yeah.

(0:18:42) speaker_2: Both in Denmark and, I think actually two times in Denmark, and now more times in Korea.

(0:18:50) speaker_2: I lived with her f- at her father’s place, and they’re really, really nice people.

(0:18:59) speaker_0: Have they sort of adopted you also?

(0:19:01) speaker_2: Yeah, you can say that. They’re really treating me like an extra child kind of. Uh, so, uh, guest, how to say, um, how is that called in English?

(0:19:13) speaker_2: You really feel at home when, when you are at, at Janni’s family. It’s really a nice feeling.

(0:19:20) speaker_2: Be- also because I don’t have found my own family in Korea, so it’s re- really nice to have this kind of connection in Korea.

(0:19:28) speaker_0: That’s nice that you can have that kind of family experience.

(0:19:32) speaker_2: Yeah, it is.

(0:19:35) speaker_0: Janni, you said when you first met your family, I know it’s 25 years ago, so half your life almost, um, that it, they felt like strangers.

(0:19:45) speaker_0: Uh, when did it feel like family?

(0:19:48) speaker_1: Ah, well, that’s a very good question because I don’t know that. I just think at some point I didn’t go to Korea because I thought I had to go.

(0:20:01) speaker_1: At one point I started to go because I wanted to go.

(0:20:05) speaker_1: But in the beginning, I felt like I really do need to go there more or less every, every year or every second year, because I knew it would be difficult for my Korean father to, um, come and visit me in Denmark.

(0:20:19) speaker_1: So I knew at that point if I wanted to get, like a stronger connection with the family in Korea, I should, yeah, I should do a lot of, um, a lot of work and, and, and put time in my calendar to go to Korea as well.

(0:20:32) speaker_1: And I think actually Snapchat helped a lot, the, the app where you just like kind of video film what you’re doing, how your life is and without saying so much, you’re just able to show your Korean family how your daily life is and what you’re doing, uh, on a normal day.

(0:20:53) speaker_1: So yeah, it gives me also a big pleasure to look into their lives and that makes me kind of feel that I’m, uh, I’m part of the family even though I don’t speak Korean and I live so far away.

(0:21:04) speaker_1: So yeah, I, I think, uh, the, the connection have grown stronger through social media actually.

(0:21:14) speaker_0: Um, how did the two of you meet?

(0:21:16) speaker_2: We also actually met, uh, through social media, through Facebook in 2018 when Janni went to Korea to see her biological mother.

(0:21:31) speaker_2: I found it very interesting and I was part of this, uh, Facebook group, uh, among Danish adoptees, and I saw this, um, I followed Janni’s stories and, uh, her posts regarding her finding and, and we started to communicate that way.

(0:21:56) speaker_2: And one day she asked if, if we should grab a cup of coffee, and since then we’ve been very good friends.

(0:22:03) speaker_0: Uh, tell, talk to, uh, tell me more about, um, the Koreaklubben. I- i- it is a group that you’re both leading?

(0:22:12) speaker_1: We are both, um, members of the board right now. So in that way you can say yes, but we were not the one who started off Koreaklubben.

(0:22:20) speaker_1: Koreaklubben is a very, a very old organization. Uh, next year we will celebrate our 35th years anniversary actually.

(0:22:29) speaker_0: Okay. Um, and would you say, uh, w- the group, uh, um, there are many that are also kind of in this mode of searching for biological family?

(0:22:43) speaker_1: Yes, of course we have members who are searching for biological families, uh, in Korea, but we also have a lot of members who do not search for families, and I think there are, uh, even more people who is not members of Koreaklubben who is searching, but they maybe not…

(0:23:01) speaker_1: yeah, they maybe don’t know how to start a family search.

(0:23:06) speaker_0: And so now in Denmark they… Do you estimate about 4,000, uh, ad- adoptees?

(0:23:12) speaker_1: No, about 9,000.

(0:23:15) speaker_0: And how many do you think… uh, what percentage are connected into Koreaklubben? Is it, uh, just a small percentage?

(0:23:21) speaker_1: Yes, but I think many people have been like a member of Koreaklubben at some point in life because we have members who comes and goes and people who may be members later on in life.

(0:23:35) speaker_1: So I think, uh, we have like had a lot of different, uh, members during the 34 years, uh, yeah, where Koreaklubben have been, uh, like an organization.

(0:23:45) speaker_1: So for many years Denmark have been very good at, yeah, making this, uh, platform where you can meet if you are like an ad- adoptee from Korea.

(0:23:55) speaker_0: Okay. What do you think, what are the needs of, uh, adult Korean adoptees?

(0:24:02) speaker_1: I myself think that we should have more support from the Korean government. Uh, I think maybe in it should…

(0:24:09) speaker_1: like, it should be easier for us to visit the country. It should be easier for us to get like a visa…. uh, like the A4 visa.

(0:24:18) speaker_1: It should be, like, something that’s just kind of were handed over to us if we couldn’t, uh, yeah, show them that we were adopted from South Korea.

(0:24:29) speaker_1: And I think there should be a set of more economical fundings so that the organizations in the different countries were able to take, uh, better care or help the adoptees with post-adoption services in different kind of ways.

(0:24:46) speaker_1: So like, I also think that we should be better, uh, to, uh, help each other in support groups.

(0:24:53) speaker_1: I think we should be able to, um, learn more about the Korean culture. We should be…

(0:25:01) speaker_1: have easier access to language exchange and, yeah, in that way, I think it would be nice to see the Korean, uh, government to take, uh, a little bit of, uh, responsibility, uh, to all of us who ha- have been adopted away, um, since, uh, the Korean War.

(0:25:21) speaker_1: (instrumental music plays)

(0:25:38) speaker_2: Yeah, um, I also agree on what Janni is saying.

(0:25:42) speaker_2: I also think it could be nice, um, to have some extra support when you are in Korea, if you want, for example, to search for your family or translate, uh, and translator or some- some kind of- of support when you are in the country, because the language is very big, uh, challenge when you’re out there.

(0:26:07) speaker_2: So, different kind of support in that way I think would be nice.

(0:26:13) speaker_0: Yeah, there is, you know, GOAL, um, the Global Overseas Adoptees Link, but you have to pay for those services.

(0:26:22) speaker_2: Yeah. Yeah, you have to. Yeah.

(0:26:25) speaker_0: So, it’d be nice to have something that, um… More support services. I- I- I understand that. What is the-

(0:26:34) speaker_2: Yeah.

(0:26:34) speaker_0: … kind of challenges that your group faces today? Uh, I suppose funding is one you said.

(0:26:40) speaker_1: Yes, and I actually think that Korea Klubben is one of the organizations who have the best fundings because we, uh, have, um, members’ fees as well in our organization.

(0:26:51) speaker_1: But I still think that carrying out all the work that I think that the Korean government should support is a very, uh, big load to put on the different local organizations worldwide.

(0:27:05) speaker_1: I think there should be, like, a better understanding that people often have some issues, uh, uh, regarding the adoption.

(0:27:15) speaker_1: And maybe people don’t think they have any issues and that’s very, very good to know as well, but many of them do have.

(0:27:24) speaker_1: And I think in that- in that way, the money and the, uh, capacity to support people should be there.

(0:27:32) speaker_1: And what we’re seeing now is that, um, yeah, a lot of groups in different countries kind of struggle to- to manage, to, uh, take care of all the- all of the members or- or the society.

(0:27:47) speaker_1: The network, like, have to, uh, do a- a huge amount of work themself. And I think, again, that it should be more…

(0:27:56) speaker_1: Spoken more freely out to the Korean government that we need and we really, uh, appreciate that they could be more… What- what can I say?

(0:28:06) speaker_1: That everybody know that they kind of support us, uh, because I think that like the OKA, like, they don’t even have their website in English.

(0:28:14) speaker_1: They only have it in Korean. They haven’t translated it. So, since they went over from the OKF to the OKA, I think that’s a little bit, um… Yeah. Yeah.

(0:28:27) speaker_1:

(0:28:28) speaker_0: And that’s like a foundation, right? Overseas Korean…

(0:28:32) speaker_1: Association now.

(0:28:34) speaker_0: Group. Okay.

(0:28:34) speaker_1: Before it was foundation.

(0:28:37) speaker_0: Okay. And is that kind of like a private, uh, foundation that supported Korean adoptees? Was that supported by the Korean government?

(0:28:47) speaker_1: Yes, that’s correct.

(0:28:50) speaker_0: Okay. Like a foundation arm. Okay. But like you said, the outreach is still lacking. It’s- it’s still in Korean. (laughs)

(0:28:59) speaker_1: Yes.

(0:28:59) speaker_1: And it would be very nice to know that they kind of support the, um, the network in the different countries, that they help with different kind of support.

(0:29:09) speaker_1: And if people don’t need it, that’s very good and very nice to know, but I think they should still put the support out there.

(0:29:17) speaker_0: Um, I heard… I’ve heard that mental health support is expensive in Denmark. Is that true?

(0:29:24) speaker_1: Yes.

(0:29:27) speaker_0: And so, do you think many adoptees just…

(0:29:30) speaker_0: They- they could use that s- kind of f- support to s- to seek, um, mental health support but they- they can’t afford it?

(0:29:40) speaker_1: Um, yes. But actually we do have, like, something we called, uh Hjemmepleje, post-adoption services in Denmark. And we can…

(0:29:51) speaker_1: Somebody from Korea Klubben actually were some of the people who fought for this, um, uh, through Ankestyrelsen.

(0:30:00) speaker_1: And it is now like incorporated into the f- the finances, uh, every year. So, we can ask for a post-adoption service through Ankestyrelsen.

(0:30:12) speaker_1: And then we can have some, um… Yeah, some support maybe. Is it eight hours, Mia?

(0:30:19) speaker_2: Yeah, I think so if- if it’s individual.You can apply for-

(0:30:25) speaker_1: Yes.

(0:30:25) speaker_2: … eight hours at a time and then that’s this group-

(0:30:29) speaker_1: Hmm.

(0:30:29) speaker_2: … conversation also.

(0:30:30) speaker_1: I think it would be, yeah. And it’s only maybe like, uh, $15, so that’s affordable.

(0:30:37) speaker_1: The- but the problem is that most of the, um, uh, yeah, it is, it’s not like all- all over the country that you can go.

(0:30:45) speaker_1: You can, you- you have to drive a little bit or you have to go to Copenhagen, um. And they…

(0:30:53) speaker_1: if you have to pay on your own it would be like $200 for one hour. Ah. But- but you only get eight hours and you have to reapply? Yes. Okay. Yeah, that’s…

(0:31:09) speaker_1: eight hours is, uh, I’ve been in therapy many, many years, so. (laughs) Yeah, yes.

(0:31:15) speaker_1: Um, but I think that’s better than some of the other countries, but still, um, yeah.

(0:31:23) speaker_1: Uh, and what are some other, uh, what are some, um, events or activities or goals of Koreaklubben at the moment?

(0:31:36) speaker_2: Mia do you want to say something?

(0:31:40) speaker_1: Oh, let me, let me, let me ask, uh, I forgot to ask, how much do you receive from the Korean government now per year?

(0:31:47) speaker_1: And is it quite difficult to get the funding?

(0:31:49) speaker_1: It’s quite difficult and we cannot say how much we get because that’s not, uh, the same amount every year, and it depends on what, um, on what, uh, project you’re, um, seeking fundings for.

(0:32:02) speaker_1: So that’s like…

(0:32:04) speaker_1: and you have to send like a report for- for each, um, afterwards that is quite, yeah, it takes a lot of hours to- to do the reports as well.

(0:32:14) speaker_1: So there’s a lot of ad- administration to- to, uh, to do this.

(0:32:19) speaker_1: Um, but I think that one- one of the most important one would be our fall camp that is like a family event, um, but I also think some of our therapeutic conversations that we are hosting is very, very important in these, uh, years nowadays.

(0:32:38) speaker_1: I think pre- prior, um, we didn’t use much time on therapeutic conversations because people were younger and people were not like, uh, feeling that many things like they do right now.

(0:32:54) speaker_1: I think we have a lot- a lot of members who have like a lot of questions and, uh, have a lot of feelings that they don’t know where it comes from.

(0:33:02) speaker_1: So I think the therapeutic conversations, the talk boxes and the group conversation and the workshops that we are hosting, that’s very, very beneficial for many of our members these days.

(0:33:15) speaker_1: Mia please, uh, correct me-

(0:33:17) speaker_2: Yeah. Yeah.

(0:33:18) speaker_1: … on what- what you think.

(0:33:20) speaker_2: Yeah, I think also the therapeutic, uh, conversations are very important for the members and it’s important that we can spread it out in the…

(0:33:32) speaker_2: in more than just, uh, our capital. Uh, we try to have both in- in Aarhus and in- in Copenhagen so we can…

(0:33:42) speaker_2: so more members are able to- to join th- these kind of, uh, events also.

(0:33:48) speaker_1: Um, what are the ages right now of, um, members who are active and what are the kinds of questions and things that people want to meet about?

(0:34:01) speaker_1: It would be like something…

(0:34:03) speaker_1: it would just be like a guess because we don’t know exactly, but I think that prior people were younger and they didn’t have any children so it was just more- more about like mirroring themself and other people who was adopted and having fun and like a get-together.

(0:34:23) speaker_1: And then I think a lot of us became a family or had children and we were very, very busy, uh, with that work and it took like years out of our, um, membership.

(0:34:38) speaker_1: Uh, we were maybe not that active, some of us, or I- I weren’t like, I wasn’t a member of Koreaklubben so I cannot say (laughs) myself but I think that’s what I heard from some of the other members.

(0:34:49) speaker_1: They have not been active when they have smaller children.

(0:34:53) speaker_1: But now when they have older children and it’s more easy to get a little bit of your own time, you have a lot of questions because you have seen maybe your children growing up or you are getting old, just knowing that if you want to connect with your Korean mother and father, your- time is running out actually.

(0:35:12) speaker_1: And I know from some of our members who is in their 50s, they definitely feel this pressure that if they want to meet any family, they really have to work really fast now these days.

(0:35:25) speaker_1:

(0:35:25) speaker_2: Mm-hmm.

(0:35:25) speaker_1: And- and that is something that Janni just mentioned, that the children are growing and getting older and becoming adults themselves. Are there…

(0:35:35) speaker_1: I suppose they also have questions-

(0:35:37) speaker_2: Mm-hmm.

(0:35:37) speaker_1: … about identity and their own feelings towards, um, their- their parents being adopted.

(0:35:43) speaker_2: Yeah, but actually in my case, uh, I’ve- I’ve always been very open about my adoption and my children know that it’s a very big part of me and- and my life, and they’re very interested in- in that I find my parents but they’re not like…

(0:36:06) speaker_2: um, how to say…

(0:36:08) speaker_1: It doesn’t affect them in the same way?

(0:36:11) speaker_2: No, not- not really. And they are very used to…

(0:36:16) speaker_2: for example, in my daughter’s, uh, school, I think third part of the class is- is people who have a mother or father from another country, so it’s very common….

(0:36:32) speaker_2: so they, I, I haven’t, I haven’t experienced that they have big questions about identity actually, not yet.

(0:36:44) speaker_0: Wh- what about racism? Do, uh, did your, you, uh, you or Janni experience racism growing up or even now or, or do your kids?

(0:36:55) speaker_1: I think there is racism in Denmark.

(0:36:59) speaker_0: Mm.

(0:36:59) speaker_1: And I have heard a lot of members saying that they have been bullied at school or they have met people who have been really, um, awful to them.

(0:37:09) speaker_1: But personally-

(0:37:10) speaker_0: Mm-hmm.

(0:37:10) speaker_1: … I, I have not, yeah.

(0:37:12) speaker_1: I’m, I’m, I, I have been growing up in a very, very small and very, uh, close, uh, community and everybody knew who I was and what family I were living at.

(0:37:26) speaker_1: Like, my father was, uh, um, yeah, very well-known in that small village, you can say that.

(0:37:34) speaker_1: So I, I have never heard anybody, uh, saying like, “Where you’re from?” Or, “You should go home,” or anything like that.

(0:37:41) speaker_1: But I think a lot of our member have, ha- like, yeah, lived that

(0:37:46) speaker_2: Yeah.

(0:37:46) speaker_2: It’s actually my impression that you should think that the bigger cities, uh, were more used to different cultures and so, but as I heard it, the pr- the racism and so are more often in the bigger cities than the smaller ones.

(0:38:04) speaker_2: That’s my impression. I haven’t been, um, I haven’t experienced racism on my own, not really. Uh, I, I know my sister ha- has but I haven’t.

(0:38:20) speaker_2: We are free adopted in my family, so. And my children haven’t experienced also.

(0:38:28) speaker_0: Uh, what do you think are the, the, the challenges for Koreaklubben going forward in the future?

(0:38:37) speaker_1: That is definitely that our members is getting older and we don’t get any like, younger (laughs) members because adoption from Korea have more or less stopped.

(0:38:47) speaker_1: So if Koreaklubben have, has to be like, have a future, we have to rethink, um, what to do in Koreaklubben in the future and who can become a member.

(0:38:58) speaker_1:

(0:38:58) speaker_2: Yeah.

(0:38:59) speaker_2: One of the, mm, challenges, uh, one, how to get more members for the, for still, um, continuing, continuing the, the, the organization and, uh, how can we include our children because, uh, not in, in the nearest future, but in many years our generation will not be here.

(0:39:29) speaker_2: So it’s important for our next generation to, to have this community, I think. So how we kind of include our children in, in this also.

(0:39:39) speaker_0: What do you personally get out of the community?

(0:39:46) speaker_2: Um, I met really good friends in, in the community. I’m not… I haven’t been member for very long time. I, I joined in 2020.

(0:40:00) speaker_2: Um, and every time I meet up, I, I f- I meet new, new friends and I can…

(0:40:08) speaker_2: I have, have so many things in common with the, the people and I, I find it very relaxing and kind of extra family for me.

(0:40:21) speaker_2: Um, it’s very easy for me to be together with other Korean adopt- adoptees.

(0:40:29) speaker_2: It’s very easy to talk about difficult issues, personal problems and so on that I, I don’t find it’s that easy to talk with my, uh, uh, Danish friends, I have to say, because we understand each other in another way and it’s so…

(0:40:49) speaker_2: It’s very easy.

(0:40:53) speaker_0: It’s like a… I’ve heard people say like instant… I mean, of course not everybody has, feels this way, but it can be kind of an instant bond or an understanding.

(0:41:04) speaker_0:

(0:41:04) speaker_2: Yeah. Yeah. You meet a new person and, and you just start talking to them as you have known them for years actually.

(0:41:16) speaker_0: Janni, how about you? What do you personally get out of being involved in, in the community?

(0:41:21) speaker_1: Hmm.

(0:41:22) speaker_1: I’ve also not been a member for so long, so I don’t know how it been before, but I think now, I think that our members find the c- community as a safe hav- haven where, like, you talked about, uh, it’s very easy to talk about more complicated things regarding our adoption.

(0:41:47) speaker_1: So if I say something, it would be okay f- for me to, uh, hear you say that you don’t agree with me. A- and that would be okay because you also an adoptee.

(0:42:00) speaker_1: But if I say the same thing and talk to some of my n- not-adopted friends and they would not agree with me, I think I would be more, um, maybe angry with them because they don’t understand me.

(0:42:15) speaker_1: So I also think in that way, we can help each other to understand that we are not all on the same page even though we are adoptees.

(0:42:25) speaker_1: Uh, but in this, uh, space, it’s okay to be, uh, like have different opinions, but-… also, there’s a very high ceiling.

(0:42:34) speaker_1: We can talk to each other about different things and we can talk about, like, non-related adoption stuff because I think it’s very important it doesn’t, like, always is about adoption.

(0:42:47) speaker_1: But I think, like Mia said, that it’s just sometimes easier to talk to somebody who is also adopted because they know exactly what you’re talking about.

(0:42:58) speaker_1: Even though they don’t agree with you, they will understand what you’re talking about.

(0:43:04) speaker_0: Um, I wanted to ask you, I don’t know if you wanna comment at all, but the D- Danish Korean Rights Group, it’s started by some Danish Korean adoptees, um, a- have you been interested in- in- are you interested in the outcome of the investigation?

(0:43:25) speaker_0:

(0:43:25) speaker_1: Yes, of course. And do you know you’re talking to some of the co-founders?

(0:43:31) speaker_0: Oh, of Danish Korean Rights Group? Okay. I didn’t… Okay.

(0:43:35) speaker_1: Of course you didn’t know because Peter don’t mention that.

(0:43:39) speaker_0: Okay. Yes, I didn’t. Um, do you wanna talk about your involvement and, you know, what you’re hoping out of the investigation?

(0:43:47) speaker_1: I think I’ll leave that up to you, Mia.

(0:43:50) speaker_2: Yeah.

(0:43:51) speaker_2: Just shortly, of course, we were hoping when Peter asked us if we would help him at that time, of course, we would like because it’s a good cause, and we would like that it should be more, how to say, transparent, uh, the process in Korea and that we could get the informations we want if we want them.

(0:44:16) speaker_2: And, um, but actually, at the moment, I don’t know where the- where we are in the- this, uh, process actually.

(0:44:28) speaker_2: I haven’t been active in the group for a long time, so I’m not part of the DKRG anymore, um, so…

(0:44:39) speaker_2: But I really hope that we succeed, uh, so we get what we want actually.

(0:44:46) speaker_1: I think I could say a statement from Koreaklubben because I think as it is our members who did start this up and it is the co-founders of DKRG’s network who was able to lift it up to this and we used our network.

(0:45:04) speaker_1: In that way, I hope that it will have a very, uh, positive outcome. In that way all our hours have not been in vain.

(0:45:13) speaker_1: Um, so in that way, yes, I really do hope that it will take something really good out of this, um, and I hope that it will be easier in the future for all of us to get access to our original adoption papers, who is in Korea.

(0:45:32) speaker_1:

(0:45:32) speaker_4: (instrumental music)

(0:45:47) speaker_0: Thank you, Jannie and Mia, for your patience across the time differences. Thanks also to new and sustaining Patreon supporters.

(0:45:56) speaker_0: Next month, I’ll be attending a free conference on the legacy of Korean adoption in Chicago, Illinois. Google Me & Korea to find out more.

(0:46:06) speaker_0: And as always, I’m eternally grateful to ǰaungjin Yoon, who has translated Season 6: Episode 19, Eric Pool and His New Hope. Go to our website, adoptedpodcast.

(0:46:20) speaker_0: com, to check it out. Until next time, I’m Kaomi Lee.

(0:46:24) speaker_4: (instrumental music)